Yes I agree HOF ratings/nominations are easy to come by, however an actual award I have not seen any in quite some time. I'm still waiting for mine, I quit holding my breath a long time ago;-)

Ratings are so subjective. We all respond to images in different ways, and no rating system will be able to get round that. I think a lot of good photographers left the forum because they left four thirds for other systems before MFT founds its feet. We may find an increase in members in months to come if OM-D is to be a big success.

As a relative newbie, I'm not too sure about this. Eccentric single HOF votes may be occasionally inexplicable but the very few pix that have garnered more than one, in my case, have been my very best submissions and the pictures on which I have worked hardest. Whatever anyone else thinks, I think MFT has improved my photography significantly in a way that contributing to other photo sites hasn't.

Something is going right . . . . .

And when things aren't broken it is ALWAYS a mistake to try and fix them.

After travelling in France with the EM-5, I think Olympus has a certain success and possibly even a game changer on its hands. More than a dozen people asked me if they could handle it and look through the OVF. And I'm sure the site lost users in proportion to Olympus' decline.

Maybe now is not the time for a rigourisation of voting policy.

I agree DV. Our site is much smaller (in terms of active members, submissions, discussions, etc.) than it was just three years ago. I'm sure there are many reasons - the lack of money, hacking, camera format changes, general boredom, ratings, petty disputes, to name a few. But why aren't new members joining at the same rate others are leaving?

If we just want to enjoy each others pictures, we should do away with the rating system completely. It fosters hard feelings (why is that a 10 and mine is only a 8?) and since there are very few negative comments, or even instructional comments, they're is no way to know why one is a 10 and another a 6. Without ratings, nothing much would change except the "highest rated recent image" on the main page. Several months ago, I quit rating and just reverted to commenting on those images I found interesting or well done. Again, just my thoughts.

as someone once pointed out to me. The subject of rating has come up many times and comments or lack thereof has been addressed as well. One thing that I have observed over time with regard to HOF is that it takes many, many "10" to qualify an image as HOF. Just look at the HOF folder and note the amount of 10s it took to put it there. So the occasional 10 given to images that may not be qualified does not necessarily take away from those that do. With regard to rating we are requested to state why we feel the image deserves a 10 or a 1 (or whatever the lowest grade is). The problem with commenting, and I certainly speak for myself, is that more often than not I cannot find the words to express what I like or dislike. As soon as I click comment, my mind goes blank. My way of expression then is either 10, yes I really like this, it resonates with me for what ever reason or I'll get back to this later. Yes, I too would prefer constructive comments. How else do we know whether or not we're on the right track or what needs to be improved on. Having said that, it also raises a dilemma. Too much 'wow' get's old real fast whereas on the other hand you never know if you're stepping on someone's toes when you point out what you consider needing improvement. Then again, beauty in art and photography is in the eyes of the beholder. In days past I have often noted photos highly praised that had they been mine would have been discarded. And all this from someone who hasn't posted in ages. I still visit this site often however my enthusiasm for photography has waned and of the few pictures I take I rarely find any worth sharing. Then again maybe I'm being too critical these days.

I agree with your note Doug.. I've been away and almost everything that I would like to contribute to this conversation has been said.. I'll Just add one comment - it appears with a few members if I award your image with a HOF then you will award my image with an HOF. MFT went through this several years ago with a small group of members.. Too bad it's happening again - a little discouraging. It's one of the reasons we loose members to other sites. Personally, I appreciate that someone took the time to comment and rating my images and understand the comments and ratings are how someone else sees the image. Fine by me... compliments feel good but I learn much more from real critiques. In closing - MFT is one of the best Photo Web Sites - we 4/3's camera users must protect it.

My 2 cents.

I got back into photography around 7 years ago, with an E-500. I found this site, lucky for me, because even today, this is the only site I tell people to visit to see quality images, and to learn from both viewing them and reading the critiques. I have signed onto other sites since then as well (had to, after getting an E3 I also got a D700 of which I can't post images here). Even so, I have learned so much here, the whole gamut from learning to see, how and what to take and compose, and how best to post process and display my images.

I just finished teaching an intro class in photography to new dSLR owners. Unfortunately for them, they can't post here, non have OLYs. Yet I tell them over and over to visit the site and view, read and learn. A few have, and they have been rewarded.

I am on and off again at MFT as I only use my E3 when traveling (size matters), compared to the D700. I have most of the great OLY lenses and have not given up on OLY. I will eventually want to upgrade my E3, not yet, still takes great images.

Ratings. My opinion last time we discussed them remains. I think we need them. As some have stated, some like to comment, one cannot always comment or add something new if late to the image, but a number from 1 to 10 is a way of saying something. As I said before, hate the new rating system. We went from 1..10 by step 1's to 2..10 by step 2's with someone's feeling on what the 2,4,6,8,10 should mean, and except for maybe 8 & 10, they really don't make sense in a linear fashion.

Almost any survey you get, even your doctor may ask, hows the pain from 1..10. We all understand 1..10.

Ratings aside. If I or someone gives an image a HOF, no biggie. It doesn't make it a HOF image unless many if not all of us do. 1..10 incl HOF is subjective.

What I found hardest at MFT, and still do, is commenting intelligently on an image. At times I was commenting on an image to a photographer that I didn't think I could carry his or her gear. I was afraid of being wrong, I was afraid of sounding stupid. BUT - the members here were very supportive of new members, as they still are. I got over it, but it is still not easy. It takes thought, it takes much time. I was spending at times hours a week commenting on images. But I learned from both comments on my images and comments I made. It was well worth the time.

That said, there are times when "9" should suffice. It says I think it is good, I took the time to view and give my "opinion" (numerical) on it. :)

The rating system for "contests" makes no sense. Oops, said I was done on ratings.

I think we have lost many great members over the past 3-4 years. I also think we still have many great members. And I do not know enough of the new members (yet) but I am sure they will contribute greatly to the site.

I find it sad that participation seems to be down, contests gone, etc. Instead of keeping hoping, I should be part of the solution and get my ass back here even if to on occasions post images i should a few years ago.

Cheers. Geno

Been away for a few years doing other things and when I come back, look what is a subject - ratings. :>)

Yeah - it is a can of worms anyway - no need to open the can. Back a few years ago, we had a huge debate about ratings and there were some changes made, but nothing is ever perfect.

Part of the problem is that you have such a wide disparity of talent, vision and skills with a site like this. Some have access to software and equipment that enhances their already high skill level. So there is going to be some disparity, inequities and unfairness in the system.

I remember back the deevee (hi dv!!) joined up - it was almost instant success because strictly because of talent. And there are others who are just so damed talented that HOF and high "scores" are automatic - I'm thinking of Rob Smith in particular. We also had some "senior" members who had their own peculiar ways of looking at images other than their own of course. :>)

Look - one reason why I joined myfourthirds in the first place was due to the high level of artistic endeavor. Just looking at the better images was inspiring and gave me, and others, a ton of instruction if you paid attention to how the images were produced. Not to mention the pleasure at looking at images produced by obvious masters of the craft.

You're right of course, Tom. I just felt the need to vent my feelings after looking at some of the glorious HOF photos in the files, and then looking at some of the current HOF ratings. Why not some conversational type rating like Very Good, Excellent, & Outstanding. Since the site has declined, there will probably never be any additional images in the HOF anyway. I do wonder what others (potential members that are decent photographers) think of out site when they see the highest rated recent image (HOF) is someone's pet dog or an old car. (my photos are certainly not immune to this either.) Anymore, when I see a photo I like or think is very well done, I say so in my comments - but no rating. Cheers

As a relatively new comer to the site and certainly a novice to the art, I can't claim to know enough about ratings, but I do know comimg from ohter sites, where I joined and left many, but I chose to stay here at My4/3s, because of the generosity, encouragements and yes critical criticisms too, I received fro mthe members. SO even with or without ratings, it does not matter to me, sure it is nice to get HOF now and then from some members whom are not so critical, on the other hand getting low ratings will only make me into my images a little more to see why someone sees it different than other, this only benefit me in the long run. So please rate or not at all the images posted to your taste, because in the end yours WILL be diffrent than the next person... that IS ART. Just don't take it personally and take it with a grain of salt, Sincerely, THIS is a HOF topic of discussion, but shouldn't be ;))