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Progress Thus Far - March 2007

2007-Mar-06
by Alan and Mario

Once again we want to provide you with a behind the scenes look at what is going on at MFT. The work never ends! :-)

  • The performance enhancements and design changes are progressing to our satisfaction although slightly behind schedule. We're hoping we'll soon see further performance improvements on the test/development site. The contractor is currently scheduled to complete the work by mid-March.
  • Now that we've reported progress on the planned changes to MFT, we can tell you that we had many problems dealing with a previous contractor. Fortunately we escaped that ordeal with every penny back in our pockets. We've learned that a contractor with a great reputation does not translate to a guarantee...but a good contract does.
  • Three hundred and fifty 2007 MFT Calendars have been printed and are presently on route to several destinations throughout North America (presumably sales reps). Any proceeds from this transaction are being used to subsidize the aforementioned site improvements. Phew!
  • Meeting took place between Alan and Mario and Olympus the week before the announcement of the new E-410 and E-510 cameras. We were greatly disappointed to learn that the new lenses and P-1 were not communicated to us beforehand. We have taken issue with Olympus on the matter.
  • We have decided to give blurb.com the opportunity to publish the MFT Book of Images given their layout style, quality reviews, service reviews and pricing. The only problem lies in the fact that their formats do not allow us to print the style of book we and the community decided to print (i.e. large sized photo with detailed information beneath). This means every photo must be overlayed onto a larger template allowing us to submit the entire page as a single, full-sized photo. It has been difficult finding time to do this task over the past month. If any members want to pitch in and share the workload, it would be much appreciated and we would mention your name(s) in the final print of the book (along with Pascal Robinet and Michael Hoefner).
  • We've thought long and hard about organizing another MFT International Meet and we've decided that we cannot afford to defocus our efforts away from the site and the online membership themselves to coordinate such an event. However, we are able to provide support to a volunteer willing to host such an event. The first meet in Croatia was organized this way and it turned out to be a tremendous success!
  • We are currently searching for a new service provider in anticipation of moving the site to a more reliable and performant solution after the site changes are in place.
  • Of course there's the usual "customer support" we deal with almost on a daily basis with info@myfourthirds.com.

Cheers to you all for participating - the best way you can give back to MyFourThirds is by commenting on your fellow community members' photos!

Alan and Mario

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Well done Alan and Mario!

This is great news about the site development and the book. Congratulations to you both on your progress and hard work behind the scenes with these issues which I am sure are very time consuming and at times, frustrating. I for one very much appreciate the work you guys put into the site behind the scenes.

About the book. Well, you got to work with what you have and this seems like a reasonable compromise that can work imho. I think you are right to go for enhancing the photographs to maximal size for viewing and appreciation. In relation to the photographer details etc, this could perhaps be accommodated at the back of the book through number referencing? If this was a runner I would be more than happy to do this work for you.

Eugene Donohoe HoF Win ¤1 $ at 03:42 EST on 2007-Mar-07 [Reply]

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As a thought, seeing as all this work is going on now, I wonder if I can raise an old suggestion of mine? Could it be possible to have ones total image gallery to be viewed by date order, beginning with the most recent first? I would find this really useful to check up on photographer's work if I've been away for awhile and want to see if any posts were made during that time. Personally, I would prefer that system. Anyways, thanks for reading!

Eugene Donohoe HoF Win ¤1 $ at 03:56 EST on 2007-Mar-07 [Reply]

Thank you Eugene!

Thank you for the generous offer Eugene. We can certainly go with the option to place photographer credits at the back of the book if there aren't any loud objections to the idea. If you don't mind, and if nothing changes in this discussion, we'll contact you during our weekly outing to address major MFT issues and get your more details.

Regarding your suggestion to have image galleries viewed by date order, this is a good idea and we'll keep it on the agenda during phase two of our MFT upgrade.

Cheers! Alan and Mario

Alan and Mario at 22:29 EST on 2007-Mar-08 [Reply]

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Thanks for letting us know about possible disruptions to the site with the implementation of site improvements. It's very helpful of you to share that info so as we can know what's happening and many thanks to you both again for your work on making these improvements.

Eugene Donohoe HoF Win ¤1 $ at 14:21 EDT on 2007-Mar-16 [Reply]

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I wish you all the best with the new provider. It may be unconnected but this is the first time I have reached the site in about 6 weeks (I try neaqrly every day). You nearly lost me! All the best, Andrew

Andrew Fyson ¤1 $ at 23:26 EDT on 2007-Mar-17 [Reply]

Changes Underway

We apologize for any interruptions in your experience with MFT. Changes are in progress however they have not been fully integrated yet.

Wish us luck! Alan and Mario

Alan and Mario at 10:34 EDT on 2007-Mar-21 [Reply]

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I hope you bring back the clock! :-)

E

E. Edwin Ennor ~ (E) HoF Win ¤ $ at 11:10 EDT on 2007-Mar-21 [Reply]

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agree with E. the clock extrem useful re of the 24h upload limit...
and my personal preference would like to see the ad's on the left again.
keep on :D

michael hoefner HoF Win ¤ $ at 11:42 EDT on 2007-Mar-21 [Reply]

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I also agree with Michael! ;-)

I prefer the advertisements on the left.

E

E. Edwin Ennor ~ (E) HoF Win ¤ $ at 11:49 EDT on 2007-Mar-21 [Reply]

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Indeed! that would be a very useful resource! I really like what i'm seeing... hope to see more!

Joo Medeiros Win ¤ ¤ at 11:50 EDT on 2007-Mar-21 [Reply]

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Keep on !! Great work . Agree also with Michael.

Eugene Donohoe HoF Win ¤1 $ at 13:21 EDT on 2007-Mar-21 [Reply]

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Is it possible to add more categories while this work is in progress?

Seascapes

Nature

People

Seascapes being more important for me in that list.

Thanks .....

Eugene Donohoe HoF Win ¤1 $ at 13:25 EDT on 2007-Mar-21 [Reply]

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pleeeease let the images be centered on the screen again. Now they seem to be really pressed to the left border which often goes against any composition within the pictures. Klaus

Klaus Er HoF Win ¤1 at 01:35 EDT on 2007-Mar-22 [Reply]

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adding some categories (people, nature...) is a good idea.
agree with Klaus re the centered image. now it looks quite a bit unbalanced.
BTW I meant the commercial ads to be on the left ;)
as I hate the black bg when reading comments, articles etc. (white writing on black bg is the most worst):
how about adding an option to change to bg color in the member's preferences?

michael hoefner HoF Win ¤ $1 at 04:34 EDT on 2007-Mar-22 [Reply]

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another point: I miss the thin line around the images. that's IMHO a prob when viewing several
because there is no more definition where the image starts/ends e.g. 'Who's afraid of the dark?'  (suitable title. isn't it ;)
that would mean I'm forced to add a line or frame on my images...
I know some like the black bg but I'm not that happy with it. it's very bold.

michael hoefner HoF Win ¤ $1 at 05:09 EDT on 2007-Mar-22 [Reply]

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Agree with Klaus about centering the images. The page looks really unbalanced now. Not pleasant. Michael's idea of putting the advertising back on the left is a good one. Please!

An option to change the background color for thise that like gray or white should be easy to do and is a good idea. I have seen that on other web sites about photography.

My thoughts about Michael's last post are quite the opposite. I felt that I needed to add a line or frame around my images to define them from the ugly gray background. I no longer need to do this. As for white text on black... it is suggested that this format be used for those with impaired vision because it is easiest to see and read. I like it.

E

E. Edwin Ennor ~ (E) HoF Win ¤ $1 at 10:35 EDT on 2007-Mar-22 [Reply]

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hey Edwin, I meant the now missing thin border line. images with black bg aren't anymore defined
from the site bg color (e.g. see my 'on stage' series).
would be easy to add a thin border line to pics within the site code.
OK. will define my images (with black bg) using a thin border line to avoid
fusing with the site's bg. do I need to update all my previous images now?
guess its just my very own personal problem.

really? is it that white text on black is used for those with impaired vision...?
LOL if so, after reading lots of white on black text u can count me in to those with impaired vision.
so this prob is solved...? better I avoid reading comments and articles henceforth.
OK. seems another personal problem of mine :(

michael hoefner HoF Win ¤ $1 at 11:42 EDT on 2007-Mar-22 [Reply]

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Yes, well, I suppose every background shade offers different challenges for the artist. I had started (on many of my images) to include a 1 pixel wide white line and a medium sized black border to separate my images from the sad gray background. (I only did this on web sized images, not on the full sized product.) I don't intend on spending the time changing every one of my images because of a site change. I may modify future images to suit the site though...

Yes, White text on black background is best for the sight impaired (myself included). And serif fonts such as New Times Roman are the easiest to read. Sans serif are more difficult to read. One problem solved.

Check out this web page...

http://www.lighthouse.org/print_leg.htm

E. Edwin Ennor ~ (E) HoF Win ¤ $1 at 12:02 EDT on 2007-Mar-22 [Reply]

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I also miss a thin frame around pictures and I would like to see the advertisements go back to the left side. As it is now text and pictures are far too near the left edge of the monitor.

I also miss frames or something around the thumbnails on the front page I think it looks quite messy as it is now and somehow the thumbnails are drowning in all the black. Plus it looks messy because not all pictures are the same format/size. Could something like this be a solution: http://foto.no/cgi-bin/bildekritikk/vis_oversikt.cgi (keeping the background black, but adding some sort of frame same size for all pictures)?

I also find it hard for the eyes reading white text on black background so you are not the only one Michael. ;-) I think most of my pictures look better on a grey background (but a lighter grey than the old MFT grey), and at the Norwegian site were we can choose between white, black and grey backgrounds I usually choose grey. Not a big deal to me though I will just have to take black background into consideration when posting pictures on MFT and supply them with a frame if black wont go well with my pictures.

Opening the front page is just as slow as ever from here.

p.t. Inactive Win ¤1 $ at 12:09 EDT on 2007-Mar-22 [Reply]

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thanks for the link Edwin,
posted a image (with blacks) this morning but had to delete it immediately when
I saw it fusing with the black bg. the fusing effected the image in a non acceptable way.
a pity for all my previuos images effected this way :(
now I'm looking for a suitable border design for such images. at the time I tend to
use a thin, gray, one-pixel-border (of course depending on the image).

as working in the printpress design for many years I know about effects of micro- and
macro typography, text contrast etc,  including the serif/sans serif font usage...
but never heard of that white on black text advantages for for those with impaired vision.
in printpress design are obviously different things valid. always learning something new everyday.
my problem (and I'm sure not alone) with the new text/bg color is after reading a few lines
I can't 're-adjust' my view afterwards. a while long I just see gray lines when viewing
'normal' pages etc. its a issue of 'indolence' of the eyes producing afterimages > optical/psychological illusion
thats why I never read e.g. the articles on luminous landscape website. always print a
pdf to read those articles...

michael hoefner HoF Win ¤ $1 at 12:51 EDT on 2007-Mar-22 [Reply]

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hei Caroline :) glad to see u back :)
and nice to know I'm not alone :) but who cares?
at the time I must agree regarding the site speed... was quite fast this morning
but after a few hours now it is slowed dooowwnnn.
we'll see how the performance is after the 'redesign' is finished.

michael hoefner HoF Win ¤ $1 at 13:01 EDT on 2007-Mar-22 [Reply]

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Yes, print and web presentation is different. Not nearly as easy to have white text on black background...

And it is arguable that sans serif fonts are more legible on a computer screen because of the layout of the individual pixels, but in print (on paper) a serif font is much more "readable". That is what I have read, what I believe, and from experience with bad eyes, what I experience. Sans serif fonts are simply hard to read for me, on a computer or in print.

As to photos on this site, we may have to adjust our presentations. :-| I don't see that is either a positive or a negative thing. That is just the way it is, so far. I don't believe all the changes have yet been made, so I await the final MFTs upgrade.

(Hi Caroline!)

E

E. Edwin Ennor ~ (E) HoF Win ¤ $1 at 13:09 EDT on 2007-Mar-22 [Reply]

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I think it is unfortunate that this discussion is going on on two articles. Hmmm.

Anyways, thanks Micha, I refreshed a few times and voila! the black bg.

Hmm. I basically like it but I have some issues with it. I agree with Michael about b/w images and borders. This definitely is problematic. Could we have a site option to have borders or not. I have seen this work well on another site. I do like the black though.

I personally would like the white font toned down as suggested by Alan and Mario.

This evening the site did not load as fast as it did this morning.

Overall I think that the changes are really good.

Exciting times!

Eugene Donohoe HoF Win ¤1 $ at 13:29 EDT on 2007-Mar-22 [Reply]

Ahaa!

This where the conversation is taking place or is it?

I'll assume it is here.

Anyway, after my initial response elsewhere, and reading over everyone else's, I'll just re-iterate that for me,

the black background does seem to exaggerate the banner-ad feel and looks more like a pin-board. Unfortunately this prominence is further exaggerated by the photos themselves looking shoved over out of the way for the adverts to retain theiir dominance. For me, this seems a little heavy handed: I prefer to look at the photo alone, not have blinking, high contrast adverts flickering in my peripheral vision as I do so. The photo is the star. Not the advert which I've already seen on the front page.

Also, I find there is strobing effect when I scroll down text; the white and black is discomforting... turning down my screen brightness helps... but then I don't see the photos as intended. I guess others have already commented wrt to the high contrast text. For me, it is very harsh.

So I guess my comments are to the effect that the page design could do with a little refining. That subscribing members needn't be exposed to advertising material ALL the time, particularly when we all visit the front page frequently anyway.... and offering the 'bonus' of removing the ads next to the photos themselves may have the effect of increasing member subscriptions... thus offestting any revenue loss from the ads themselves. No?

OK, sorry to repeat myself here. Despite my reservations, I would like to say that I do appreciate the efforts and time Alan and Mario must have spent over the site in recent weeks. A revamp is no bad thing at all, I just think a degree of refinement would help things a little.

Again, for me, the photos are the star attraction.... is it possible to see them 'un-adorned'? Or are there contractual issues locking us down into this look for teh time being?

Best wishes- Andy

Andrew McLean HoF ¤1 $ at 19:24 EDT on 2007-Mar-22 [Reply]

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I'll first start with the positives and say that the redesign of the actions to the top is great and the font is fine for me. The home page is fine graphics wise. I am not a fan of the black background for the same reason as others have stated. It has made several of my photos look quite strange with the blending blacks. If the black is kept then a border IMO is very neccessary, possibly gray. I dont' really care if there are ads on each image page but would like a more centered image for viewing. It is very odd having it on the edge. Keep up the hard work A&M, site performance is getting much better. Best, John S.

John Stankewitz ¤ $1 $ at 21:01 EDT on 2007-Mar-22 [Reply]

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I hope for one thing, and that is that a different system is put in place for determining the HRI. Perhaps a weighted system akin to the system used by Harpham Pix.

The black just looks better and better to me. Black is the background color Adobe chose for the excellent program Lightroom because it allows the true color and tonal range of an image to be seen without surrounding visual influence. Black makes images appear as the are. Loving it!

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

E. Edwin Ennor ~ (E) HoF Win ¤ $1 at 21:09 EDT on 2007-Mar-22 [Reply]

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I is thinking about the song "The More I See You" .... Great improvements and I love the black bg the more I interact with the site. It's the default colour that I chose for my own site last year.

I have been thinking about the hri again in terms of the current context of change and request for feedback.

I would like to suggest a change from hri to appreciated images.

What I mean by that is instead of having one image up there, have smaller thumbs with say the five highest rated images at any one time within a given period of time. The way it is at the moment doesn't work so well for me. An example of that is last night JP had a brilliant image up but was knocked down (that's ok too, no complaint here!) with 5 votes and a score of 9.80 and replaced by another very good image but with one score of 10. I dont think this system any longer represents the sophisication of what is happening on mft around appreciated images. I think that we need to move away from a system of highest score to quantity & quality scores and a system such as I suggest would give a wider identification to appreciated images - after all, many different genres of photography are enjoyed here and one hri does not reflect that reality. I for one do not need to see a really large thumbnail up there. Small is fine. One click and you've got the full image and sure that's what people do anyway. Perhaps something that could be considered for phase two if there was support for it?

Eugene Donohoe HoF Win ¤1 $ at 04:51 EDT on 2007-Mar-23 [Reply]

CENTRED IMAGES AGAIN ;-)

Just noticed that you centred the image!! It looks fantastic. Really wonderful - great work guys - it all looks so much better. Great!

Eugene Donohoe HoF Win ¤1 $ at 04:54 EDT on 2007-Mar-23 [Reply]

THANKS FOR PUTTING THE CLOCK BACK IN !!

...

Eugene Donohoe HoF Win ¤1 $ at 05:06 EDT on 2007-Mar-23 [Reply]

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I believe that using Bayesian Averages as used at http://harphampix.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=93 would be a fairer system. It works well there.

E. Edwin Ennor ~ (E) HoF Win ¤ $1 at 10:32 EDT on 2007-Mar-23 [Reply]

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I believe that using Bayesian Averages as used at http://harphampix.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=93 would be a fairer system. It works well there.

E. Edwin Ennor ~ (E) HoF Win ¤ $1 at 10:32 EDT on 2007-Mar-23 [Reply]

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First, THANK YOU Alan and Mario for all of your work on the site! It looks wonderful. I'm relieved to see the images centered now.

Forgive me if someone else has commented on this already (I just skimmed through the many replies on this thread), but I'm a bit bothered by the scroll-frames around many of the Most Recent 200 images. I guess the scroll frames are there for those images whose titles, etc., don't fit into the allotted space? They are very distracting, though, and make it quite tedious to look at the images and read the titles/photographers' names. Not a big deal, but I do prefer the way the 200 images used to appear.

Also, I like Eugene's idea of multiple HRIs very much, as well as the suggestions for using a different scoring method for identifying such images.

While I'm at it (are you sick of all of the suggestions already, lol?): I would LOVE to be able to look up a much longer listing of images with the highest ratings (e.g., most ratings of 10). It seems as if many HOF candidates disappear completely off the radar screen after a few days and I hate to think of missing some great images (and casting my vote for them) just because I'm absent for some days in a row. It would also be great to be able to look at a whole bunch of the highest rated images all in one place; the HOF just doesn't satisfy my needs in this regard (too small a slice of the pie). Don't know if I'm alone in wanting this, though!

Anyway, the new site looks really great, and seems to be functioning faster, too. Thanks so much again for all your hard work.

Elisabeth Spector HoF Win ¤1 $ at 11:34 EDT on 2007-Mar-23 [Reply]

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good point Elisabeth re the thumbs.
guess the table rows and columns are just too small.
theoretically easy to fix.
also agree with Edwin re Bayesian Averages...
should be feasible as harphampix uses the same siteframe code

michael hoefner HoF Win ¤ $1 at 12:54 EDT on 2007-Mar-23 [Reply]

Definitely an improvement

Change isn't always good but in this case it's welcome. Agree with absolutely everything that's been said above, even the stuff that contradicts other stuff. It is kind of sad what the background change has done to some old images, and based on experimenting in my last post a 1px wide light gray/white band around an image is not an answer. Every once in a while I like to put a 12px black border around an image for offset, but that option is now dead here.

Michael, you think your images suffer, take a look at this one! There used to be a 200px black frame on this! Ouch!

Ferd Berfle Win ¤ $1 at 22:23 EDT on 2007-Mar-23 [Reply]

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Preface: I like Michael's imagery very much. This is not a critique of the one example.

When an image suffers in presentation when placed against a black background, is that the fault of the (ultimately) neutral background or a fault of the image perhaps not being as good as it could be? Likewise, when a frame around an image can no longer bee seen because it blends into the background (in this case black), is the presentation mostly about the photograph or more about the frame? I thought MFTs was a site to share photos, not frames...

E. Edwin Ennor ~ (E) HoF Win ¤ $1 at 23:05 EDT on 2007-Mar-23 [Reply]

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first: I'm delighted to see some interest and a longer discussion. its been a while ago
since a thread was that long. but as usual it were mainly always the same members
expressing their thoughts...

I don't think the site is only about photography but also about 'images'.
some share a snapped photo, some a carefully created image.
yes, its not a site to share frames. don't think many members uses frames as a end in itself.
but sometimes a frame actually adds to an image and is part of a message (see Ferd's 'Claustobia' ).
presentation is indeed part of an image. in some cases to separate the image from the bg...
as a auxiliary means also visualizing the choosen aspect ratio which can be an important attribute.
a border isn't just an simple thin line. it should be an integrated part of the whole image.
unfortunately the expression possibilities of some images are now limited by the bg.
other images will benefit from the black bg. c'est la vie.
so now some members are confronted with a quite different challenge how to present
an image on a black bg.
hope the judgement of those images will not be to much biased by the used frame.

finally I wonder whether a gray card should be black and
all art museums and galleries are wrong because of presenting paitings etc.
on walls that are not black...

michael hoefner HoF Win ¤ $1 at 06:27 EDT on 2007-Mar-24 [Reply]

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Michael expresses my dilemmas about the bg very well but having said that I also chose black for my own site cos I love it. The problem here is that for my own site I prepare images with a white border and the bg is not going to change. Here I prepared images for a grey bg which were suitable but many of them are no longer suitable cos of the bg change. I guess change for the better can also bring problems but we'll get over them I guess.

One suggestion I have made about the hri is going into a separate article as I believe that is worthy of specific discussion

Eugene Donohoe HoF Win ¤1 $ at 07:13 EDT on 2007-Mar-24 [Reply]

Thanks for sorting the thumbnails on the recent 200 !!

...

Eugene Donohoe HoF Win ¤1 $ at 07:15 EDT on 2007-Mar-24 [Reply]

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Interesting points Michael. In use, the words "photograph" and "image" are often interchangeable. A photograph is an image, but an image is not necessarily a photograph. Sort of like a turtle is a tortoise, but a tortoise is not necessarily a turtle. (Or did I reverse the analogy! Whatever, you get the point.) I do believe this is a photo site based upon the website information page. If not, then all sorts of images would be allowed, and in fact this sight is about photographic images made with 4/3s cameras. (Website Information - "Welcome to MyFourThirds.com! This is a __photographic community__ where owners of Four Thirds camera equipment can share their very best photos for review by other members (not to be confused with an online image storage facility). Users can rate and comment other member's images, write articles and participate in photo competitions." Museums are not "wrong" for choosing not to have black walls. But a museum is not in Cyberspace, it exists in the real three dimensional world.In that world, art is framed. Cyberspace is 2 dimensional and in that space, frames are an adjunct of added pixels around the edge, not real at all in the sense that it exists in 3 dimensions. When I print out a photo (wet or on n ink jet printer), I do not add a pronted frame to the paper, I place the paper in a frame for display. The difference is sort of opposite, like blending colors. As we all know, when three primary color pigments are blended in equal amounts, you get black. When blending light, you get white. Adding frames is fine here, and people do it all the time, myself included. Too much of a frame (in my opinion) makes the presented image" more about the frame than the photograph. But, I sort of like Rococo frames from time to time... A black "gray card" would defeat a main purpose of the tool, to determine the middle value for an exposure. Interesting thoughts and a fun exercise. :-) E

E. Edwin Ennor ~ (E) HoF Win ¤ $1 at 13:12 EDT on 2007-Mar-24 [Reply]

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Well, adding the image tag removed the paragraphs which makes my post above hard to read, so here it is with paragraphs...

Interesting points Michael. In use, the words "photograph" and "image" are often interchangeable. A photograph is an image, but an image is not necessarily a photograph. Sort of like a turtle is a tortoise, but a tortoise is not necessarily a turtle. (Or did I reverse the analogy! Whatever, you get the point.) I do believe this is a photo site based upon the website information page. If not, then all sorts of images would be allowed, and in fact this sight is about photographic images made with 4/3s cameras.

(Website Information - "Welcome to MyFourThirds.com! This is a photographic community where owners of Four Thirds camera equipment can share their very best photos for review by other members (not to be confused with an online image storage facility). Users can rate and comment other member's images, write articles and participate in photo competitions."

Museums are not "wrong" for choosing not to have black walls. But a museum is not in Cyberspace, it exists in the real three dimensional world.In that world, art is framed. Cyberspace is 2 dimensional and in that space, frames are an adjunct of added pixels around the edge, not real at all in the sense that it exists in 3 dimensions. When I print out a photo (wet or on n ink jet printer), I do not add a pronted frame to the paper, I place the paper in a frame for display. The difference is sort of opposite, like blending colors. As we all know, when three primary color pigments are blended in equal amounts, you get black. When blending light, you get white. Adding frames is fine here, and people do it all the time, myself included. Too much of a frame (in my opinion) makes the presented image" more about the frame than the photograph. But, I sort of like Rococo frames from time to time...

A black "gray card" would defeat a main purpose of the tool, to determine the middle value for an exposure.

Interesting thoughts and a fun exercise. :-)

E

E. Edwin Ennor ~ (E) HoF Win ¤ $1 at 13:14 EDT on 2007-Mar-24 [Reply]

at least its fine to talk about it :)

of course a photograph is an image. and mft is a 2D photographic community.
LOL seems I have forgotten this like others have forgotten that mft is not
an online image storage facility...
my definition of an 'image' is more the image as a final result of a creative process,
starting with the ability to control the tool... the ability of seeing and composing...
the capture and (post)processing of the visualization of a vision...
than just to snap a scene... with a photographic tool.
the article Making Images - Not Taking Images gives probably partly an idea what I mean.
people are different as their pretensions are. sometimes I tend to forget this.

michael hoefner HoF Win ¤ $1 at 14:12 EDT on 2007-Mar-24 [Reply]

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Pete makes some good points and who can argue with the quality of the product he presented in that article? Certainly not me. I different in my definitions, based mostly upon my own training in college from people I have been told nobody cares about hearing anymore.

Making an image - I was taught to pre-visualize an image, and this process in one step in making an image. But an image is also a "latent image" on film, an exposure, undeveloped even on the negative. A digital RAW equivalent, but still an image... that I (or you) made. I consider "making an image" to be part of the process, the most enjoyable part of the process, but I don't consider it the end product. I consider it to be the process. (I might say, "Look at this print and see the image I made".)

Taking a picture - something that anyone does with a camera. No skill required, but that is not to say that all pictures that are taken are without skill. Photojournalism come to mind, and capturing "the moment". Skill is often required to take a good picture in live action, as is experience.

Final print - The result of craft, or of a crafts person. There are many good photographers that pre visualize in image, make very good images, but can't for the life of them make a decent print, or use Photoshop to produce a decent jpeg for the web. There are many examples at MFTs, as well as other sites and publications. Likewise, there are many beautifully produced photographs of banal subjects that don't rise to the level of interesting, even if beautifully presented...

So, I take pictures, make images and produce a final print or product. Paper gets put in a frame, JPEGs are displayed on a monitor occasionally with really gaudy frames! ;-).

E. Edwin Ennor ~ (E) HoF Win ¤ $1 at 16:39 EDT on 2007-Mar-26 [Reply]